Iran

1.Yes and when we had the resources we liberated them what did we ignore.
After Hitler went against the statment he issued to chamberlin by invading poland we realised he wanted the whole of europe so we tried to organise to stop him. We told poland we would go to war if they were invaded they were so we did.

2.The Russians killed mainly russian and german jews Primo levi and others were allowed to return to europe.Stalin had noones interests at heart other than his own he was a crackpot.He had nothing to do with religious prosecution just wanted to get rid of jewish power base in the New Soviet union.

3.Isreal is massively funded by the usa. Alot of jews still live there i really do believe that both have the same middle east interests and the us wants irans oil.
I support the rights of jews to have a Homeland and it right to defends its self. What i don't support is it right to surpress and kill innocent poeple caught up in the politics of others.

I don't see how this can offend you.

consider your position as head of Iran.
the countries surrounding you are thus
1 turkey.... ally of the USA and containing us troops
2 Iraq....... occupied by the USA
3 kuwait..... ally of the USA
4 Saudi arabia.... ally of the USA with troops and bases there
5 Pakistan...ally of the USA and nuclear power
6 Afghanistan... occupied by the USA
7 Turkmenistan...us troops

you are completely surrounded on all sides by a hostile nuclear power who has declared you to be part of an axis of evil and has talked openly of invading you.
do you
a) roll over on your belly and let the usa take over
or
b) try to develop your own nuclear weapons as quick as possible in the hope you can use them as a detterent

in addition you are threatened by Israel who has nuclear weapons and the UK who also have them

Joe, i'd be interested to hear your 'take' on these:

1. The Irgun & The Stern Gang, particularly the writing of Begin & Shamir at the time and their legitimisation of terror, including the King David Hotel & letter bombs sent British civil servants.

2. Sabra & Shatila

3. Qana

1. Why couldn't they bomb the camps? accept jewish immigration to the UK? accept Jewish immigration to Palestine?

2. And your point is, you said the Soviets allowed the Jews to return... This into true - the Soviets allowed the Jews to return if they assimilated... how the fuck is that an act of compassion?!?!?!?

We owe fuck all to the Russians - they were only marginally better than the Nazi's.

3. Israeli's couldn't give a fuck about US oil, the US has interests in Israel - not the other way round... We don't depend on them for anything - this is a left wing myth.

Your oil comment doesn't offend me, supporting Irans ambitions offends me... How else can I take your blind support?

I would be far more supportive of their desire to arm themselves if they didn't constantly state their desire to murder jews, destroy israel, prove their holohoax theories, etc.

If you were in my shoes would you want to see Iran armed?

Pretty sure the Iranians don't really give a fuck about a cheesy soap set in Chester.

1. I support the Irgun, just as I supported the ANC - although civilians were sadly killed they tended to target military installations.

2. A disgrace, although we weren't directly responsible for the massacres - we did a tragic job of protecting the victims.

3. A tragic accident and a consequence of Hizbullah initiated violence... Israel didn't deliberatly target the camp - they were returning fire and got the enemy position wrong... But this happens in war - find me an intense war where civilian deaths were avoided.

Man, it's gonna take a brain-washed young jew hours to google-contruct any opinion on those.

probably not but I'm asking for some understanding of their position not the constant demonising of them.

why would i need to google them, unlike you I'm forming opinions after 5 minutes of wikipedia.... My opinions have taken years to evolve.

demonising of them?!?!?

They want to see me fuicking dead mate! How the fuck can I demonise the biggest threat to the Jewish people since Hitler.

1, If we bombed the camps we killed those still alive.
I am not arguing about british immagration policy after the second world.

What i am saying is that we did not ignore the camps.

2. Stalin killed some jews left in the New soviet union but also killed everybody who opposed him. He allowed those jews whos country boundries did not fall under the new soviet union to return to there countrys are you saying Primo Levis books about the Holocaust are untrue.
Stalin did not have it in for jews he just wanted to eliminate any other powerful fractions in the state.

3.Ok only time will tell on the iran situation,

This is the first thing i googled on us aid to Isreal.n Source
www.wrmea.com/archives/Jan_Feb_2001/0101015.html

January/February 2001, Pages 15-16

Congress Watch

A Conservative Total for U.S. Aid to Israel: $91 Billion—and Counting

By Shirl McArthur

Israel and the U.S's interest's are linked to me simply because of the amount of money the us has spent to support israel its not a myth.

Its not about U.S. oil it maybe its about iran not having it if oil runs out that benefits israel and the U.S.

When did i say i supported Iran i don't.

I am sick of seeing poeple dying because of the political ideas of the ruling classes over the centuarys hasn't the middle east seen enough bloodshed it makes me lose all faith in the human race to evolve.

Yeah and you still talk shite.

1. OK, i can understand your point, but the point is you are prepared to support the Irgun & the Stern Gang because because they profess to represent you, if you read the stuff that Begin & Shamir were publishing at the time they are explicit in their advocacy of terrorism, i'd even go so far as to say they expound the honour of the methods of terror, it's an over used analogy but one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Terrorists seek to provoke a state into extreme acts, which drives more moderate memebers of their target audience into their arms. Shamir & Begin were attempting exactly this in provoking the British into driving moderate Jewish people to their cause in 1948, they did this at first with small scale attacks, then graduating to the bombing of the King David Hotel, and the public hanging of British soldiers. Your attacks in Lebanon, the collective punishment in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank ensure a steady supply of Israel haters, with, it has to be said, some justification. In the Arab world, your continuing to give Iran and their hatred legitimacy. The only answer to this is a just settlement with the Palestinians, no more land grabs, no more settlememts, no more withholding taxes, no more daily shelling, no more killings of stone throwing children by snipers, no provocations through assinations, no more roadblocks. With a just settlement for the Palestinians, people like Ahmadinejad lose all legitimacy.

2. Right, come on Joe, even an Israeli commision found Sharon indirectly responsible for this. The IDF surrounded the camps, let the Phalangists in, no one out, and watched as they slaughtered hundreds of Palestinian refugee's over 3 days, they lit the sky up at night with flares so they could carry on through the night. My point here is, that all sides have blood on their hands, i dont need to point out the crimes of the other side, you already do that, but to ignore the crimes of your own is disengeuous at best.

3. ok, it's a grey area, i tend to disagree about the mistake, i've watched the Norwegian troops video of this, with an Israeli drone flying overhead. The fact is though, that each generation in the region is being witness to another Israeli grievance, the hatred goes on and on and on. It's time to stop. Israel as the state, claims the moral superiority, well it has to act like that.

Every goverment lies Joe, even yours.

I think you just did

No you wouldn't... you'd take out the gas chambers, cremitoriums and military installations... This had been reuqested by several Jewish organisations... As a liberal humanist you appear to be defending the undefendable.

2. I'm not suggesting he didn't, I'm just saying you had no right to portray him as a friend to the jew.

3. On the bloodshed thing I agree whole heartedly, but I am also a realist - I like most Israeli's want peace... But I am prepared to support my nation when a threat arises... Iran is a threat.

As for the US we didn't need them when we first started defeating our attackers in battle and we don't need them now... We spent 1500 years depending on others - never again will we rely on the support of the more powerful.

Israel will survive with or without Americas help.

Funny how you shy away from debate and choose to spew out the odd insult... by all means challenge my views, but if you're just going to mutter the odd insults from the shadows you'd be better off saving your breath.

So you could survive without the $3 billion dollars in US aid a year? Id like to see you prove that it would be possible.

1. I agree on ending the settlements, sadly I'm in no position to stop this extremist movement.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=3330818905742409257&q=pallywood

Some of your stone throwers... Don't get caught up in the leftist propoganda (I'm not suggesting that Israel have no blood on their hands - just showing you facts that I doubt you've been introduced to)

2. You just agreed with everything I said.

3. I know Israel lies, probably more than most... However I do believe that we try not to target civilians (I think there is an element of disregard for civilian life though) - when you consider the fact that our enemies hide amongst civilians the civilian death toll is suprisingly low - but Israel tend not to bat an eyelid when the unfortunate lose their lives.

But this is not as ignoble as our enemies who try to kill as many civilians as possible.