does Israel have 'a right to exist"?

so moses could have ut whatever he wanted in there ?

Mainly to avoid a kiddush hashem, Jews will bury their Torah's in Jewish graveyards (you'll never find one in the bin) as the text and the word g-d is sacred.

If someone printed out a message where I'd type g-d in its entirity then they threw it in the bin it would be a kiddush hashem... The name (hashem) also hold great mysitcal importance in Judaism and there are legends of great sages creating miracles by uttering the name of the Jewish g-d.

In essence the name is one of the most sacred aspects of Judaism.

Theoretically - yes.

But he'd just witnessed g-d smite down the egyptians, kill thousands of first borns, call up plagues, part oceans, fuck up the heebs in a bad way, etc. It would of taken some balls to corrupt the word of hashem after witnessing all this first hand.

you beat me to it m8 !!!!!!!

or that could of been the part he made up to double bluff people into thinking his whole story is true.

2 million hebrews witnessed it along with the Egyptians.

so he's a nice guy, god then yeah ?


fuckin sound it

they witnessed God did they ? says who ?

2 million hebrews, they either witnessed hashem or conspired together and pulled off the greatest lie known to man.

But somewhere along the line I'm sure one of them would of let the cat out of the bag.

yeah but joe how do we know these two million hebrews wittnesed God ?

Interesting. But the point i was trying to get at was why is it ok without the o? Surely, the original kiddush hashem would have been with His name written in hebrew? So now it's been translated to English, and then it was translated to g-d. My point was that is it not the meaning that's sacred, rather than how it's written. So isn't writing g-d exactly the same as writing God?

Because its documented, either you're calling an entire nation liars or they believed that they witnessed g-d on mnt sinai.

If hashem did talk to the Hebrew slaves on mnt sinai then what would we expect to see next? All of the nation would follow the Laws, and educate their children to follow the laws. And, each generation would pass the Laws to the next one, generation after generation. Fine. That is exactly what our tradition claims happened. But what if He didn't speak there? Then what? Well, then you have millions of people, an entire nation agreeing on the same lie. A huge conspiracy. Every person in the desert lied the same lie.

Its either one or the other, the Jewish nation lied when Israel came into creation or they believed they witnessed g-d.

The English name is still a name for g-d.

But so is g-d.

I'm not trying to be smart or have a go. Just wondering what the jewish line of thought on it is, eg. are them some hardcore ones who won't even write g-d?

mate documents mean bot all . Every religion is based on these sacred documents which to be perfectly honest could have been written by anyone . Religion is falible thats a fact . there has never been and will never be any unrefutable evidence that G-d has been seen , exsits , spoke to moses or bucked some virgin and had a jesus !

I do believe there is something there.But basing your beliefs on a book written a long time ago by people claiming to have witnessed god is a bit naive / hopefull .

But thats just my opinion .

1 fuckin NIL

Joe I happen to believe your version, but it doesn't take a genius to suggest a different slant on events.

Who's to say the 'plagues' were acts of God? What if they were just natural disasters, and Moses had his followers believe it was an act of his God?

How do you know there wasn't some disease that spread round Egypt over the course of a day or two wiping out a lot of their population (the 'first borns')?

How do you know God parted the sea for Moses? It could have just been a particularly shallow inlet or something (I'm not very geography-minded).

Anyway, as I said above, I believe your version, I'm just highlighting that you sholdn't be so blinkered.

Its not its an abriviation "Jews do not casually write any Name of God. ...Judaism does not prohibit writing the Name of God per se; it prohibits only erasing or defacing a Name of God. However, observant Jews avoid writing any Name of God casually because of the risk that the written Name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better. Normally, we avoid writing the Name by substituting letters or syllables, for example, writing "G-d" instead of "God." "

If we didn't write any of the letters that exist within the word g-d we'd lose out on half the english language

I wouldn;t say naive/hopeful, it's just a question of faith. Which is what this is all about.

Joe can try and argue til he's blue in the face, and draw up obscure facts, readings, opinions, variations, but at the end of the day no one can prove anything.

thats the important bit....