RW fans

Bri you miss the point completely....

I;m not bothered whether your 13 year old sister considers Robbie Williams one of the greats - I'm interested in the opinions of musicians, critics, etc. I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find someone who thinks Vanilla Ice is one of the greats... But people who hold these thoughts are usually thick as pig shit - but this isn't an insult bri I'm sure your very intelligent

This may sound arrogant, it may sound pretentious - but I couldn't give two shits about what teeny boppers think, I know they consider him one of the greats they shift his albums.

But when you look at it from a grown up's perspective There is nothing that grabs you lyrically like say dylons tamborine man, nothing jumps out at you musically ike the whos my generation, theres nothing revolutionary about him like say nirvana.... Its Just bland pop music - and where you may consider angels one of the great songs of this centuary - you'd find yourself ina minority.

There is very little musical merit to the song - you've failed to give one reason as to why it should be classed as one of the greats - other than you like it.

go white boy, go white boy go!

who is talking abt 13 yr old sistsers? i dont have one for a start, no score.

if you seen that knebworth gig live last night (JUST FOR AN EXAMPLE!) u will see that the majority of the crowd were ADULTS!!!

or very mature looking 13 yr olds

i think you are missing the point actually as well, you still have robbie williams stuck in the take that era...he has moved on, he is no longer soley aimed at the teen market.......he appeals to a LOT wider audience now...and seems to be doing a damm fine job of it!!!!

look at the swing album he did for example....i wud hardly say that was aimed at the teen marker, would you?

i think the basic fact is that you fail to see past his teeny bopepr days and will not admit this......ever!

robbie williams, like it or not has had, is having and will continue to have a great great career! fact. this is not my opinion, it is a fact, you cant overlook what has already happened!

i am not saying angels is one of the "great songs of this century" either. you keep comparing it to all of these greats from yester year....i am simply saying it is a great song NOW.....it appeals to a MASSIVE (fact! look at sales of the single..) audience NOW and will be remembered in years to come....im not looking at the past now....im looking at current times and the future....thats all.

we aint going to agree on this ever, your too stubborn for that however....im right you're wrong

Bri you switch stance more times than a thai boxer with a broken toe.

I'm not disputing he has a GREAT career, but having a great career does not make you one fo the greats - you can't seem to differentiate between demand and talent.

I know your big on football so lets look at that, the most popular footballer of this decade is argueably Beckham - however he is nowhere near the greatest talent of this decade and if you were to even attempt to class him as one of the greats (pelle, best, ronaldo, etc.) you'd be laughed at... He is a very marketable product with mass appeal... Just like Robbie.

Unfortunatly for Robbie he will never break america, as they see him as what he is - a very cocky not so talented ugly brit...

Can you not see the difference between demand and talent?

but robbie williams has TALENT and therefore is in DEMAND - thats a fact...surely u can see this?

fair play there are a lot of talantless wannabees on the circuit, but these dont last long - they soon fizzle out onto the used goods scrapheap.......robbie hasnt...when take that split, everyone was saying how he would do nothing...wud fade away unnoticed etc etc...didnt give him a chance...

oh how he has proved them wrong! good on him!

he cud break america if he wanted to tho, but unfortunately...dont think he can be arsed to even attemot it - shame!

and your example wasnt very good with beckham btw - i think beckham can very well be one of the greats - specially with his move to madrid - fresh opportunities playing alongside some of the greatest players in the world (of which beckham is one of these btw....one of the greatest players in the world..)

with this move he can move on even further....bad example.

i did see what u were gettin at but it still doesnt change my mind on the whole robbie williams situation, sorry

I've got to admit I am a bit of a Robbie fan :spangled: Think someone mentioned that his songs aren't actually entirely written by himself, which up until the completion of his current album, Escapology.....was completely true. I'm sure, however, that from now on in, the Williams/Chambers partnership is no more.....think I saw this on a documentary recently. For Robbie, I think it could prove to be another make/break move although you can argue that he has already "made" it but I just think the next album and any future songs could be quite interesting.

Also, I think someone was trying to argue the case that he's not one of the greats of the last century which I would kinda agree with. You've only got to look at people like the Beatles, Elvis, The Clash, Sex Pistols etc to realise that he's up against some bloody stiff competition in that stake. I would argue, that he is probably one of the best things to happen to the pop music market in the last decade or so. I do like the music but that isn't the full package at all, whether thats right or wrong is open to debate! I just think he's pretty much an ordinary guy but has a massive talent as an entertainer!

Feel free to rip me to pieces for anything I've said!

Thank you please!

I'm no football guru - but from what I've read Beckham is and will continue to be dwarfed by Ronaldo, Zidane, Figo and Raul - Beckham was brought onboard to introduce real madrid to the far east - which he already has done. He is unquestionably a world class footballer but he isn't and never will be one of the greats... So not such a bad example

Yet again your ill informed ill accurate account of reality is proved wrong... Robbie did try to break america and it went tits up... He's a money chasing corporate junkie, of course he'd loved to break america - his label planned to break america as did he.... and guess what......... they failed

To be classed as one of the greats you have to have a combination of two things - unquestioned talent and huge demand (it also helps if u do something revelutionary think: beatles, nirvana, alice cooper, sex pistols)... Where Robbie has the demand there is nothing to his music... you have yet to show me one quality in his music that puts it in the great league.

Hodge I'd say only one band deserves the title of great this decade Radiohead I'd also say Oasis and Eminem have a shot at this title too - I like none of the above bands - but I can see their blatant contributions to music...

I just don't see what Robbie adds... Bri you've yet to tell me why he should be called great - yes a lot of people buy his music and yes you like him - that doesn't make him one of the greats

Ok - so if one of the neccesitys (sp?) of bein huge/big/great is to break america - oasis failed - so cant be the case.....

Robbie was a fukkhead yeah - and messed up with the breaking america thing......doesnt mean he isnt a great talent just means he didnt quite go the right way about doin it.

Where did I say you have to break america to be classed as one of the greats?!?!?!?

And Oasis had a lot more success over there than Robbie....

You still haven't answered the question - what makes robbie one of the greats (and we've established demand, a big contract and the fact u like him doesn't)

Would probably agree with you on Oasis (preferred their older stuff to the more recent albums) and Eminem (really, really don't like him or his music, but again I can the contribution he's made to music, however, I personally think he's probably just as marketed as Britney Spears et al)......not sure about Radiohead being THE great of the last decade but can definitely see where they have contributed!

I can't believe that you 2 are still arguing about RW lol

U were using that as an example so i assumed this was part of your "criteria" for being a great

Oasis have had very little success in america - they were cancelling gigs left right and centre cos liam was being a twat and cudnt b arsed - they lost the respect of any american fans they had...

I AM NOT SAYING ROBBIE IS ONE OF THE GREATS either - we are getting wires crossed here - im saying he has some great songs, a huge fanbase, a lot of success etc....

Im not saying by any means he is one of the alltime legends....all im saying is that he has had and will continue to have a LOT of success - this for me is proof enough he is a huge talent and is doing something right sumwhere.......

Record sales, merchandise, tours etc...all successful - surely this is proof enough he is doing it right?

Beatles/Nirvana/Queen etc etc....these are all successful artists cos the stuff they knocked out was good enough to appeal to people, therefore good enuff to make them buy the reocrds etc yeh?

Isnt it all the same sorta thing?

and loooooong may it continue

omg

Bri can you can't dsifferentiate between talent and demand....

I can't argue with someone who cannot tell the difference.

THERE IS A DEMAND COS HE IS TALANTED!!!!!!

Its not very difficult to grasp

he was best in take that.

granted take that were my idols and i have just sorta gotten over the split - but he's better off without em....they were meanies

hes fucking shit!!

hes a total knob end to

he can fuck off for all i care like!

dj rush has remixed sum of his material

u wish!!

jsut cos u want him